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Saturday, October 27, 2007

Fort Vancouver Pioneers kicked out of WHA

And the Pios are gone... I am expecting a statement from the league shortly and will post it (or a link to it) as soon as it is available.

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posted by Marc Foster at 10/27/2007 10:05:00 PM

Comments on "Fort Vancouver Pioneers kicked out of WHA"

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:25 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

rumor is out there that they are trying to get back into the norpac

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:31 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Couldn't happen to a nicer team!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:43 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

They're done. My bro-in-law played for them and will be on the ice with Helena of the NorPac by next week.

The Pioneers have been self destructing for a few years now and I really can't say I'm surprised. The writing has been on the wall all season.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:45 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Several Pios are going to end up on River City of the Norpac playing for thier old coach. From what I hear it is a financial issue. It doesn't seem at this point a problem from the Pioneers side, but the WHA hasn't held up to their end of financial support.

Unfortunately the Pios have burnt their bridges with all of the sanctioned leagues so there is no choice but to end the season.

I will post more as I find out. It is too bad for these kids this year. There are some great kids on this team, and some very young players that hopefully will still find a home for this year.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:24 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

pios are sick and they need to be playing as a team not split up...

 

Blogger Marc Foster said ... (4:37 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Okay folks, I'm only going to warn you once. Behave yourselves or I will take down the comments.

 

Blogger dumping0 said ... (7:09 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Good riddance to WHA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:02 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

So what is the next victim, errr....option, for MacWilliams?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:53 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Yeah it's definitely financial. The bus never came to pick them up for their road trip this weekend and they were told they would have to drive their own cars to Canada!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:03 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

The reason the bus never came to pick them up was that the Pios weren't paying any of their bills, including the bus fees!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:34 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

From USA Junior hockey:
"It seems that the Pioneers have been "Tilted". Let's here it for Ricky Smith for pulling the plug early on!!"

Admiral Smith may have pulled the plug that sunk the Pioneers. However his own ship is listing badly and so full of holes I am betting the WHA Titanic won't stay afloat to see 2008.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:39 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Why would Norpac allow them back in, they publicly trashed the league and the caliber of play in the newpaper and in their website... I hope that guy in Helena has a backbone. Won't everybody other than the fill in coach have to leave,, from the main office?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:46 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

They won't have a team left to rejoin the NorPac with. Sounds like everyone who wants to finish the season is already hooking up with teams elsewhere.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:54 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Well, it must be "official". Any mention of the Pioneers has been removed from the WHA website.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:50 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

Pioneers are financially sound - it is Ricky Smith who is not holding up his end of the agreement with providing bus transportation for the ENTIRE league. It doesn't just affect the Pioneers, I respect the FTV management for standing up for not only themselves but the entire league on this one.

Somebody better keep an eye on Ricky Smith - rumor is he is getting ready to flee to Venezuela.

Don't misinterpret Pioneers not paying their bills - that is a twisted manipulation of what is going on here. This is not Pioneers - this is Ricky Smith and the crook he is. This situation could have been resolved, watch the rest of the teams fall..

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:52 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

The Pioneers aside the WHA has it's own problems. Maybe it was just a border thing and now with the only US team gone it will be better. But just last week the Pioneers played a team that showed up and skated with only 7 players.

This included their backup goalie, and their 26 year old coach. It was embarassing to watch. There were some very talented players in the league, but I had not seen a good team yet. I never did the the Oliver Jets play.

The Pioneers were able to win with mostly 14 and 15 yearolds with some 20 and 21 year olds sprinkled in. The league was not all it was supposed to be. Maybe they will have better luck in Canada.

On another note, I really never saw this being a good fit for the Pios when all of your opponents are in Canada and the travel expenses have to be large. The WHA never came through on their end of having other US opponents for the Pios, and of course the Pios are very limited in their options of where to play as long as they keep the same ownership.

What other options do the Pioneers have now?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:57 AM, October 28, 2007) : 

I have heard the same as one of the posts just above. I was told even before the season that the WHA was going to be supplying all of the transportation including a bus for the Pioneers as well as the rest of the league. I was curious to how the Pios would be able to incur the costs and this is what I was told before the season.

I believe it was either the first or second road trip North that the bus never showed and the Pios had to rent vans to make the border crossing. Then again this week there is no bus.

It seems that the WHA has not come through on their promises so it will be interesting to see the end result of the WHA this year. Can the survive past January this year?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:28 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

It's going to be hard for the league to stay afloat when they have all those games to reschedule. And FTV was supposed to host the tournament...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:41 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

as far s WHA paying the bus for them why would that ever have been the arrangement did ft van ask norpac to pay their bills last season- they have an owner its up to him. smith already is responsible for 6 teams why would he babysit these guys- not to mention thery were charging more than any other team in the wha for player fees.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:00 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

the wha paid for all of the pio hotel bills while they played in canada this season and ya i agree who would include them in there overall transportation costs they charge more than all of the other teams they are independent there own players telling others that cheeky n loftrgren dont have any money to bus players an actually asked the wha for bus help this is a far cry from what these pio owners are saying now??? they waited for a bus that didnt come?? good one if true why did they not advise wha that they were not coming at all on this weeknd. the guy who runs wha bus-s in b.c. was called by brian cheeky boy and asked for help on bus-s saying all he has was 2000 a month to move players???? wow nice one

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:15 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Poster above (at 1:00pm) - that is why all this is happening. WHA has an agreement with "all" the teams - WHA provides the buses, not each team.

Cheeks "did" notify them they weren't coming because WHA didn't follow through on the agreement to provide bus services. WHA is doing the same thing to the other teams. The osoyoos team came down in a van that they had to rent themselves, because apparently "the bus broke down". Ricky Smith needs to come up with a new excuse. Why do you think WHA saw David Douglas 'resign' recently? Because Ricky Smith didn't pay him.

Everyone needs to just wait for the facts to come out and stop the rumor frenzie and posting all the crap.

Why are some of you so quick to put all blame on the Pioneer team for this, when you aren't there and you don't have any proof or fact about what is really going on.

Let's wait and see what Marc receives as far as an official news release.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:16 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Funny how the Fort Vancouver website finally gets updated today! They even have posted their upcoming games against the Sharks. What's up with that?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:28 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Why would the WHA agree to pay for the Pioneers Transportation cost? The Pioneers didn't pay anything to join the league and they charged their players $5,500.00 to play. With their 21 rostered players, and 6 on Scholarship, that still leaves $82,500. I would think that they would be able to pay their own transportation cost. Did the NORPAC pay for their transportation in previous years?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:35 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

The WHA website has removed all the FT VAN info. They them from the standings and from the schedule but not the logos of all the teams.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:37 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Will the WHA have a dispersal draft for the Pioneer Players?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:04 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

You guys don't get it. The WHA LEAGUE OWNS THEIR OWN BUSES (three I think)

They provide them to the teams to use for travel. I am assuming the teams are responsible to pay some portion of the driver fees.

Not only the Pioneers were promised use of a bus for travel, every team in that league was promised that and Ricky Smith is not providing it as the WHA agreed to.

 

Blogger dumping0 said ... (2:23 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

No, the WHA does not own any buses. They chartered buses last year, and it was one of the many unpaid bills last year.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:56 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Pioneers are alive and well and have no money problems, in fact they have lots of money. They'll do just fine.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:01 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I think that Medford is looking for players............

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:06 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Can the Pioneers play in any other league? I thought that their management and coach had lifetime bans from USA Hockey.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:08 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I will admit that this is all speculation, but if you've been following the drama behind the Pioneers for the last couple years you'd find it hard to believe that they're 100% clean and innocent.

Blame the WHA if you want, I don't have all the facts about who pays for buses or whatever...but the truth is, if the Pioneers hadn't run such a loose organization and burned their bridges with USA Hockey after getting busted for it, they wouldn't be in the WHA in the first place.

The sad thing is that the real victims are the players. Some of these kids have a shot to get college scholarships and for others it might be their last chance to play competitive hockey, and now they're getting screwed. It doesn't matter who's fault it is, it's just too bad.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:11 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Dateline Portland:
This just in a group of five poker players as well as Sidney Crosby are going to save the Pioneers. They made a bunch of money on some swamp land Jon sold them in Florida. I believe they are looking at relocating to Juarez Mexico So Jon can coach.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:16 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

This is great, All of you that trashed the people that had kids in Tucson and called sour grapes. Here's your sign. It all sounds alot like what we heard a year ago hmm way to go Jon. I dont care whose fault it is if you were dumb enough to let your kid play for this guy you have officially gotten what you deserve. all 200 poster's last December were full of s$^% right? You guys knew the real scoop and He was a great guy.
hahaha.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:22 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Why is it that the same people always end up causing all the crap. Different league same old problems!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:23 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I never thought I'd say this, but they should get Tim O'Neil back.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:25 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

He can't He's BANNED
Classy Organization

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:34 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

There's always a loophole!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:36 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

why does the barhead alberta river kings ride on their own bus and pay their own hotels same as the wha teams? why do the pios not pay there hotels up in canada and rely on the league who has infact paid for all of their hotels to date ?? why does this apply only to pios that they would be granted a free bus when even the wha's own teams travel by bus and van this doesnt add up? wha teams have travelled to alberta on and at their own expense and paid their own hotel bills yet ftv team has no funds for hotels up in canada n expect the league to supply them with a bus ???? they havent even made a trip farther than osoyoos or squamish ?? did they advertise this bargain or savings to pio-parents that they just joined a league for free plus they get all their bus transpo for free

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:40 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I think it's called a money making scheme!! MacWilliams 101

 

Blogger Lucky BLu said ... (3:47 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I think Ricky Smith regretted his decision bringing the Pioneers in from the start! He just got tried of their bulls%#*!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:48 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

well ya i personally like others do not know details but how is this at all sensical when it appears the facts are that wha teams plus the alberta team play each other and pay their own bills bus hotel food period yet the ftv appears to have a deal that is better and more lucrative than the whas very own teams===they pay no hotels and pay no bus this is very hard if not impossible to believe

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:48 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Leave Tim out of it... most of the crap last year and this year was not him. They mad sure they ruined him too.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:53 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Actually Tim could shed lite on this as he has the Pios game uniforms home away there must be a reason as he is a good guy good communicator and wouldnt keep the team uniforms if it wasnt due to something big. I saw the game against Alberta and the pios wore practice uniforms

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:54 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Have all of the kids gotten full refunds? I smell a TILTED situation here.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:56 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

A team folding , no answers , no Macwilliams. I am not sure but I think I have heard this story before.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:58 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

so you've been to his home and seen them? what a horrible thing to say

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:08 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

On behalf of Topeka HOckey '07 Congrats on the debacle up there! We found ourselves being railroaded here by Jon the day he came to sign the lease and cut him off at the pass!

I was suppsosed to do some radio we set up as a precurser and then head over to the rink and finalize the deal well while he was here he got the call the boy's who were supposed to be living with hiost families were being evicted from ther apartments!

So again I say thank GOD he didn't mess up our last chance here in Topeka!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:09 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

If you think Tim O'Neil is going to step in at the 11th hour and save the season, I wouldn't suggest you hold your breath. I'm not saying that because of any opinion I have of his character, I just don't think it's very realistic. The season is over for the Pioneers.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:26 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I know we all have opinions but ive heard down here in medford where my son plays he received a call from a pio player an says that the pioneers can play in the league that is the pioneers players an that the parents of the players or anyone who would like to run them or coach them even their assnt coach old or new just not the ftv ownership group so if there is a parent up there grab ahold of this and try an do something

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:35 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Is this the Denver Pioneers?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:44 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

The Denver Pioneers are a college team in the WCHA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:47 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Am I correct that the players as individuals could join Norpac teams, but the team (players, coaches, management) can't join Norpac?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:52 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Unfortunately the players are the victims. The players along with their parents got suckered into a bad organization. A lot of spit and polish on the surface and a lot of tarnish underneath. I know that some of the parents and players were warned but they decided to not heed the advise.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:56 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Comment on what the Medford parent said. I think Brian Cheek and Dave Petrino are squeeky clean. Get rid of Joe and they might be able to stay as a team and join Norpac??? They both have kids playing on the team.... so that might be the answer.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:58 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

My understanding is this: the players can join the NorPac (some of them are already moving on to NorPac teams).

There could be a "Fort Vancouver Pioneers" team in the NorPac in the future but the current owners would pretty much have to sell the team because as far as I know -- and I could be wrong here, but this is my best understanding -- most of the personnel of the team have been banned by USA Hockey.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:43 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I thought only Loftgren and O'Neal were banned by USA hockey, so that leaves Cheek and the asst. coach, Petrino to run things. But would Norpac trust them? Also, don't most of the Norpac teams already have full rosters?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:56 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I beleive what Medford is saying and i have heard same is that this very same team can play in the WHA under whatever leadership other than current owner ship it can stay and play as long as owners are different of course they can try and re enter Norpac but might be difficult. options for players and parents i guess.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:15 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Pioneers roster has 2 21 yr olds and and 4 15yr olds (Cheek doesn't turn 15 till Dec). Are these guys even age eligible to play NORPAC?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:26 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Doing the math, Norpac players (those with birth dates on their rosters) are between 16 and 20.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:44 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Yeah most NorPac teams have full rosters, but they can always make room for a player they like.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:13 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

If the Pioneer organization has lots of money (so someone said) then all they have to do is get rid of Loftgren and they are good to go. Cheek in charge, Petrino coaching (and their kids would be still have a team) That is, IF Norpac would let them back in. Which, truthfully, I hope they are not that stupid.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:22 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Haven't you heard. Fort Van. is way too good for the norpac. they should lay in thier big pile of stinky s&*t. You make your bed lay in it. They have proved over the last couple of years they do not deserve a team in any league.
can you say KARMA. There are Hockey Gods and they are laying the lumber to all that think they are bigger than the game.
Anybody else wonder why Sidney Crosby's personal coach would be coaching Junior B in Vancouver, WA?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:25 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Oh come on, they're Junior A*


**Not endorsed by any governing body other than the WHA itself

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:28 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

As a person who has been involved with the Pioneers this season, the people who are implying that Coach MacWilliams had anything to do with what went on with the WHA is totally misinformed. The problems come from the WHA ownership group and their lack of committment to promises they made.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:45 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Do the teams themselves (not individual players)have to pay a fee to join the WHA, and if so, did Ft. Van pay? Who pays for all the ice?

 

Blogger dumping0 said ... (7:58 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

With so much dirt on both sides of the isle, accurately placing the blame in this scenario will be quite difficult.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:05 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I had also heard from Pioneer parents at tryouts that Norpac offered NO competition for their players. They were so much better than ANY of the Norpac teams, that was why they decided to play for the WHA, (omitting the fact that they were banned from any USA hockey affiliated team) because it would offer competition. Looking at the scores between the Pioneers and the WHA teams it seems that the WHA also offered no competition.

 

Blogger dumping0 said ... (8:11 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

The teams had to pay a fee to join WHA, plus they were responsible for their respective ice time bills.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:34 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

If the Ft. Vancouver players are so good (and I think a lot of them really are) their coaches should be trying to advance them to higher-tiered leagues.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:35 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

dumping0 i heard the same but what did the teams pay?? or in this case what did the team in Alberta pay and what did the ftv team pay as they are the only new ones in this year???

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:00 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Don't blame Jon MacWilliams, he was a great coach who cared about his players and this is beyond his control. It is unfortunate this happened, but at least it happ
ened now and the players can go elsewhere. Jon MacWilliams and Brian Cheek were in it for the boys!!!! Joe Loftgren was the reason this fell apart.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:13 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

then why doesnt a new ownership take over and play??? if what ive heard is correct thats the missing link ive heard same over and over re ftv owner so move on or back in and go the players deserve it at the very least.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:35 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

It's not that easy, new owners can't just "take over", obviously the old owners are holding on or they probably wouldn't have joined an independent league in the first place.

Maybe now that they've burned their bridges with the last league that would take them, the owners will sell the team and they can play again next season.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:43 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

hey buddy that said that Joe Loftgren was the reason that this team fell apart. your a idot!!! 2 reason joe would do anything for the better of the ft vancouver pioneers and the kids who play for them and jon tried to get all of us to come play for another team before this all went down and cheeks is one of the best coaches i have ever had so i think you need to just shut the hell up if you dont know your facts.

 

Blogger dumping0 said ... (10:06 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

I don't know what they charged for franchise fees. I think FTV was the only team not owned outright by the WHA. Some have posted that Ricky agreed to cover or help out with FTV travel cost, he very well may have. He is also been known to change the terms of agreements after they've been signed. Which is why their eastern league never came to be. A week & half after signing the HNM Jr A Canadians and others, he went back wanting more money.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:15 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Jon is just in it for the BOY$
You are a retard, He is in it for him and only him.Slithering around from town to town so not to get caught. Fort Van. parents looked the other way even though all the evidence was right in front of you. That is your fault not Jon's. The WHA is not Junior A if your kids were good enough for Junior A they would be playing in the BCJHL. Ten years ago all these kids would be playing Midget house or Mens league. So now that everyone can call themselves Junior A they feel better. Save your money play Mens league.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:36 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Joe Loftgren appears to have tons of money, but in fact he is broke as a joke. Not that this is his fault, it is Ricky Smiths screw-up. McWilliams, as hard as it is for me to say, is an innocent bystander he cares about the kids and has been trying to get them places to play along with Cheeks. This horrible deal has got to be a preview of what is to come for the WHA, parents run and pull your kids out before it is too late

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:41 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Joe Loftgren is going out with a "lady" who billeted players last season, an allegedly slept with several of them and bought them all liquor. He needs to be accountable for this fiasco.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:11 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

They are probably out of money and cant afford the bus because they are paying players again this season... I know as one of my roommates was getting $$$, thats the only reason he plays in FTV vs. any other JR A team.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:27 PM, October 28, 2007) : 

Our team here in Medford does not have a full roster. Hopefully we can get some of them to come play down here. Some nights they only play with 10-12 skaters. With some more talent we might win a game this season

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:24 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

How would this have anything to do with Jon? As a coach (and one stuck in Canada) how did he have control of money to shut this team down.
How is he slithering from town to town? He has been out in the open, on the websites with contact information and was giving interviews.
What 'exactly' has Jon been convicted of? And I do mean legally and not opinions.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:44 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

I wonder why he snuck into the us in the first place and then got stopped at the border and not allowed re-entry. It sounds to me like he did nothing.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:54 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

Again, this team has found a way to create disaster. Their spin on things is laughable. You have a team that was booted out of the Nor-Pac and USA Hockey because they cheated. Yes, they cheated, they even admitted to cheating. So they go to the WHA, and lie about why they changed. They said it was because the Nor-Pac and USA Hockey wasn't good enough for them. Of course the informed individuals knew this was all a sham. So they end up in the WHA a league that has considerable problems and they get the boot there. Amazing. What is lost in all this is the players. Especially the players who paid. Will they get their money back? They will probably be able to play in the Nor-Pac but have they already lost NCAA eligibility? Some tough questions that I'm sure the officials of the Pioneers won't be answering. The owner who claimed to "care" so much for his players has screwed them again. Pitiful.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:00 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

Why would the players have lost their NCAA eligibility?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:35 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

Players that are paid to play lose NCAA eligibility. There was talk that players who played for the WHA would not be able to play in college, but I think that is only for Canadian players.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:52 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

I know emotions are running high...but what has Jon been convicted of? You say he crossed illegally into the US. Convicted of what? And I do mean legally and not opinions as well.
In all the Tilt mess, what was Jon convicted of? Or anywhere else for that matter?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:19 AM, October 29, 2007) : 

He spent money that was not his. I have heard that the bank records of the Tilts funds tell all.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:03 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

The WHA does not pay players. There is no reason for them to lose their NCAA eligibility.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:47 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Again what I am asking is....."Convicted of what? And I do mean legally and not opinions as well."
I have read everything, I am just asking what Jon has been convicted of?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:50 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Conflicting comments, some say that the Pioneers paid SOME players (with Norpac and with the WHA) to play for them. If they did, if players took any money to play hockey, then those players are not eligible to play NCAA hockey. Other comments say that the Pioneers did not pay any players to play for them.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:51 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Seems like it doesn't matter what Jon did or what Joe did, or what the Pioneers did or didn't do with Norpac and the WHA. The team has folded, players are looking for new teams. Will this be the end of the saga?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:14 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

The players who took compensation to play definitely lost their eligibility. Compensation includes playing fees. The real question is will the rest of the players also lose their eligibility because they played with "professionals." My guess from my dealings with the NCAA is they are probably in some trouble here.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:46 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

I am very sad for the players. My family and I loved watching you. I hope you all find new teams to play with. I will miss you! I don't give a crap about all the politics, I am just a fan of the game.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:10 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

What "professionals" are you talking about? The WHA players are aged 16-20 and are not compensated by the league.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:20 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

To the poster who mentioned "playing fees" are a violation of amateur status:

I don't know if this is what you're talking about, but the NCAA rules state that fees can be waived as long as it is 1) in accordance with established team/league rules and 2) waivers are not awarded on a basis of athletic ability.

If a player received a "scholarship" to waive his playing fees because, for example, his family didn't have the four grand just to play in addition to the billet stipends, they would still be eligible for NCAA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:03 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Very true, but the "waivers" were for athletic ability, thus making them "professionals" in the eyes of the NCAA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:08 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

DOnt worry about eligibility, none and i mean none of those players are even close to being good enough to play in the ncaa. jeez, wake up already.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:31 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Maybe in a couple of years there will be NCAA Division 1 Tier 3. Everyone should be a division 1 athlete

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:41 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Jon was never convicted of anything for the tilt mess, the reason being as it was a private entity and the people who actually gave him money would of had to file suit individually in order to try and recoup any monies paid. As for any state crimes unfortunately he is a little fish in a big bowl and state attorneys do not have the man power in order to go after this type of case. He was however arrested by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement here in Tucson for being here illegally, but since he left his previous wife for the one he has now he was allowed to remain in the US. Classy. The Pioneers are all the same type of people dirtbags,excluding the players. I feel sorry for the people who lost their hard earned money and the player who may lose a season.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:52 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Anonymous said...

He spent money that was not his. I have heard that the bank records of the Tilts funds tell all.

11:19 AM, October 29, 2007

They did. You should have seen how much money was spent in Las Vegas alone, almost more than some make in a year, but hey there's nothing wrong with that, sponsorships didnt come through, they only charged like 12 players, so on and so on probably the same crap that went on in FT. Van. All of you were fairly warned about these people running this organization and refused to listen to people who had been through this last year, bet you feel pretty smart about all of the nice posts defending Jon, Loftgren, and Cheeks.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:05 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

I think there are some players that are good enough to play NCAA.

I just think the team cares more about winning than developing players and has tried to hold them back. Which is why they had to pay players to stay in Ft. Van instead of moving on to higher leagues.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:36 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Parents of Pioneers players....shame on you!!! a simple look at all the negative press over the past year should have sent you packing. But alas, wasn't it Hitler who said "the louder you tell the lie, the more apt people are to believe it."

You were sold a bill of goods. How ridiculous do those of you who defended these guys feel? It is laughable that you want to excuse Cheek from this. He is simply the least greasy of the lot. Petrino seems like a good guy who got caught in a lump of dung.

O'Neal was smart. He smelled the stink and left the party.

I feel bad for the kids, but most had the choice to play elsewhere prior to the season.

How's that free ride lookin' now boys??

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:48 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

Most of the Pioneer players were not looking at going to college, thus the NCAA eligibility meant nothing to them. They are hockey players, not students. Winning was the goal, by hook or crook. Academics didn't enter into the picture. And no, most of these players wouldn't make a D1 team.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:51 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

I believe that all of the players were placed on Norpac teams in a dispersal draft when the Pioneers left Norpac. The players who stayed with the Pioneers this season had an option to go elsewhere, they chose to stay with the Pioneers. Sold a bill of goods as far as I'm concerned, but you get what you pay for.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:15 PM, October 29, 2007) : 

I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABOUT FORT VANCOUVER THEY KILLED NORPAC AND WERE ON THERE WAY TO KILLING THE WHA WITH ONLY 14 PLAYERS...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:48 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

seems like the pioneers went straight down hill, after the coach with no front teeth left.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:36 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

I do feel smart still defending Jon. Too small a fish, private entity...whatever.
It seems your reasons to condemn are no different than mine to defend. Opinions that dont mesh.
As for divorce and remarrying? Man oh man, I didn't know that was a crime? Alot of us better look out or we'll be tarred and feathered for marriage woes now!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:37 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

A coach with no front teeth?
What does that mean?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:38 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

How about gettting remarried while your wife and kids are stuck in Canada. Not yet divorced.
you are clueless

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:46 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

Which side of the story are we to believe, the WHA statement or the Pioneer's statement on their website?
Does it matter?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:54 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

So now even someone who has an opinion, because it differs from yours, is called names? Clueless?
I didnt realize his wife and kids wanted to be anywhere other than Canada?? Must be though as you say they were stuck.
Can you provide the divorce date and the date he remarried? Because now he is even being accused of bigamy. How he has never been convicted of anything is beyond me?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:27 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

As a hockey mom (and not with this team BTW) who has been reading and following all the drama and politics surrounding hockey in general.....At least Jon MacWilliams sure was lovely to look at!!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:33 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

When then that makes it all better doesn't it? It is much easier to have 6000.00 stolen from you by someone who is lovely to look at, rather than some ordinary looking con man.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:51 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

So why didn't you press charges and have him convicted if he stole 6000 dollars?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:51 AM, October 30, 2007) : 

"Anonymous said...
I DONT CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS ABOUT FORT VANCOUVER THEY KILLED NORPAC AND WERE ON THERE WAY TO KILLING THE WHA WITH ONLY 14 PLAYERS...

10:15 PM, October 29, 2007"

There were 19 players on their roster.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:04 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

There's nothing wrong with this team, the owners, the coach or these players!!! How dare anyone bring up anything personal about them!!! No one is cheating, no one is scamming, and no one is drinking! *hic* It's none of your business!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:47 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

I guess it does not really matter except the kids that are not having their dreams filled and playing hockey this season. What has made me sick to my stomach is the spin masters at Ft Van the past year. I don't have much respect for the crew and Cheeks.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:00 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

Oh I forgot, I must admit the radio guy doing the play by play last year was great. At times he was drinking a little to much kool-aid the way he would go on when the Pios lost a game. Also, I would even say Cheeks actually did a good job filling in at the end of the season. Like I said - no respect for the crew who run the team. Maybe they will be a little more humble. Then realize they just need to let the kids play and it does not matter where or how good the team is.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:30 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

Anonymous said...

I do feel smart still defending Jon. Too small a fish, private entity...whatever.
It seems your reasons to condemn are no different than mine to defend. Opinions that dont mesh.
As for divorce and remarrying? Man oh man, I didn't know that was a crime? Alot of us better look out or we'll be tarred and feathered for marriage woes now!!!

Read the post genius it never said anything about divorce being a crime, I guess when your current wife cant provide you with US citizenship, its a good idea to start banging one of your "students" who take lessons from you, oh yeah and shes a US citizen too.....instant US citizen. my post was a general statement as to what kind of person he is.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:41 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

seems to me the pios were a halfway decent organization the first year under the new management but when they blew it in NORPAC playoffs that year everything changed cheating was the only way they thought they could make it to nationals and they thought they were too good to follow the rules. loftgren is a control freak who wanted to win at something probably because he is such a loser to begin with. it is a lot easier when you are using other peoples money because he didn't have anything even though he pretended he did. he was a phoney. everything had to be his way. oneal was smart enough to get out once he realized he was embarasing himself. cheeks was not that smart he had to live his hockey fantasy and keep a spot open for his kid. now they have nothing. loftgren ran his family business into the ground and he did the same thing with pios. he is a slimey liar who deserved what he got to bad for the kids though. the parents who are complaining should have done a better job checking these guys out the evidence was all there for the asking but they are so hungry for their kid to make it big that they listened to all the lies and looked the other way. if the kids are that good they will play again and will be wiser for the experience. people can blame mcwilliams all they want but this organization was well on its way to blowing up before he got there. maybe loftgren is actually slimier than mcwilliams......

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:47 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

Jon's gone back to Canada he is the Mounties problem now. The proof is in the pudding. Caught and run out of town in Tucson-caught and run out of town in Topeka- and thank god for the U.S. Customs not let back into town in Fort Vancouver. He has done awful things to hockey and to it's players but maye it is time we have a funeral in the us for him and let it go. I knew him and I can tell you there has been way to much time spent on this horrible role model. So can I say Rot in Canada and please never come back to the U.S. I am sure there is another Sidney Crosby waiting for you to mold them.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:02 PM, October 30, 2007) : 

Wow, the last comment was right on. I couldn't have said it better myself. Whoever you are, you hit the nail on the head. Kudos to you.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:45 AM, October 31, 2007) : 

"Read the post genius it never said anything about divorce being a crime, I guess when your current wife cant provide you with US citizenship, its a good idea to start banging one of your "students" who take lessons from you, oh yeah and shes a US citizen too.....instant US citizen. my post was a general statement as to what kind of person he is."

Thank you for the genius comment...I am highly educated and appreciate the fact that you recognize this ;)

It also goes to show what kind of person you are when you reduce yourself to name calling when someone disagrees.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:30 PM, October 31, 2007) : 

blow it out your ass RETARD
Name calling can be fun you should try it

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:57 PM, October 31, 2007) : 

It's funny how the Fort Vancouver Pioneers and Jon MacWilliams brings out the best in everyone!! ASTA LA VISTA BABY!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:52 PM, October 31, 2007) : 

You are hilarious!!Was it your wife Jon banged?? Wouldn't blame her if she did ;)

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:51 PM, October 31, 2007) : 

She didnt like to play in the snow

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:55 PM, October 31, 2007) : 

The Pioneer organization always liked blaming others. Are we at all surprised that they are blaming the WHA? The Pioneers thought they were so good (team record from last season) that an organization (WHA) would be dying to let them in, to up the quality of play of the WHA. Along with that they expected preferential treatment. Good for the WHA that they said, "No way." They treated the Pioneers just like the team in Alberta. Shame on the Pioneers for thinking they were so good that they should be put on a pedestal. Way to go WHA for sticking to your agreement.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:45 PM, November 01, 2007) : 

Wow - some really sad, bitter and twisted people on here.

Why not ask Ricky about the supposed $79,000 in unpaid charter costs from LAST year, that led to the mess with the Pios?

FTV had written agreements in place with the WHA, and Ricky couldn't be bothered to honor those commitments - so it MUST be the Pios fault, right?

Nah, better just to sling a bunch of shit and see what sticks.

It must rankle those of you north of the border, knowing there was an American-based team that could beat you at your own game...sad.

I do agree with the poster who felt bad for the kids - I know one of them, and he's crushed. He was learning a lot, and was really looking forward to the experience.

Hope ol' Ricky doesn't turn around and do to YOUR team what he did to the Pios - but don't worry, I'm sure some of you will be able to twist whatever comes out to fit your bitter agendas.

Ass monkeys, the lot of you.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:55 PM, November 01, 2007) : 

YEA, THERE'S ALOT PF UPSET PLAYERS, PARENTS, FAN, BOOASTER CLUB HELPERS,ETC.... STILL VERY VERY UPSET FROM LAST SEASON 06-07 FROM ALL NORPAC TEAMS. THEY KNOW THAT A FULL HOCKEY SEASON WAS TAKEN/CHEATED FROM ALL PLAYERS OF THE NORPAC THAT YEAR! SINCE THERE IS A AGE-OUT POINT FOR JR PLAYERS, YOU CAN NOT GO BACK IN TIME. IT JUST SUCKS!
BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS .... I JUST SAVED ALOT OF MONEY ON MY CAR INSURNCE :)

ITS TIME FOR THE NORPAC BOARD (IF THERE IS ONE) TO STEP UP AND LET TELL THERE TIME TO KEEP THERE WEB SITES UP-TO DATE, AND START LOOKING LIKE A FIRST CLASS LEAGUE..
THERES LOTS OF GREAT PLAYERS,PARENTS,COACHES,REFS,RINKS,FANS, LETS THINK POSTIVE!
WHAT DO YOU THINK??

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:00 PM, November 01, 2007) : 

Think your correct. Its a business, A hockey business, so from time to time someone wont be happy.
thank you
pios fan of 05-06 yooks year

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:14 PM, November 01, 2007) : 

Oh, yeah. The Pios are SOOOOO innocent. Right. Better watch who you are calling ass monkeys.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:00 AM, November 02, 2007) : 

Rather pathetic that a goalie has to advertise on youtube. Really sad. If he was any good coaches would have already contacted him. Most of the Pios players have already found new teams to play on.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:20 AM, November 28, 2007) : 

pios are sick, you cant tell me that teams like seattle arnt helping there kids out right now? come on? the team is like 25 and 1 its just like fort van all over again i think that usa should make some kind of aid for the kids. but this is coming from a player, anyone else think im right?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:47 PM, December 06, 2007) : 

jon won't be allowed back into the country for a minimum of 10 years. He's now training to become a tow truck driver in Canada!! hahaha
There is a God!!

 

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