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Friday, November 02, 2007

More from Fort Van

Well... The Columbian gives us not one, but two articles today. The first, Transportation costs drive Pioneers out, gives Brian Cheek's version of the story, and sure enough it's more he said/she said. Though while Rick Smith is quoted in the article, he doesn't refute the Pioneers' claim the league was to provide the transportation. I don't know if that's intentional, or just how the article was written. Cheeks also admits that the no-show Friday in Lillooet was a set up as to not allow the WHA to get the gate for that night. The article also lists landing zones for some of the displaced players.

The second article, Players, arena lose out as team folds, discusses who will and won't get refunds. In case you are keeping score: Players, the rink, and sponsors are out money. Season ticket holders have been getting refunds, however.

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Comments on "More from Fort Van"

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:35 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

That rink has already lost 1 sheet, this will give the new owners all they need to close the other entirely. Good Job JOE

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:37 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Are the players having to pay fees to join their new teams? That's a lot of money if they paid the Pioneers $5,500 and are not getting a refund, and now they have to pay fees to a new team/league.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:38 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

yes they do have to put up fees for the other teams.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:59 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

someone ask ricky why oliver did not make game yesterday in burnaby and tonite in squamish. maybe he has no buses or $$.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:58 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

LET US PRAY

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:10 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

...interesting - you got proof on that (Oliver not traveling to Burnaby or Squamish)... looks like Ricky Smith may have another team to deal with. Lets see..FTV kicked out for supposedly not showing up - how will they discipline Oliver?

OH thats right.. "the bus broke down".

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:14 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

yes, call burnaby 8 rinks and ask if there was a game or practice yesterday. also check squamish web site and see they are playing whalers tonite. then look on wha web site schedule and see that oliver is suppose to be in squamish
NO $$$$$$$$

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:53 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

No refunds on players fees, no refunds to sponsors, no fulfillment of ice contract, waht a class group.

To all the players, fans and sponsors, hockey owes you an apology. Lord knows you won't get one from Fort Vancouver management.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:55 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

players were warned. teams were warned and leagues were warned. If I had a used car lot I know who I would hire. These guys were great bulls**ters.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:56 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

let this be a lesson to players...you get what you pay for!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:00 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

“Pioneers president Joe Loftgren said the team will not be able to refund player-fee money it received. Loftgren said the money was spent to cover season start-up costs including equipment and supplies, ice and trailer (locker room) rental, and travel for the two road trips the team made”.

“Some of the players paid in full at the start of the season. Others were on payment plans”.

….so the players that paid the full $5,500 up front are out of luck, but the players on a payment plan just get to walk? It's not their fault, but lucky for them.

To make it right, Cheek and Loftgren need to dig into their own pockets. They are ultimately responsible for where this club ended up.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:00 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

I just went and read the Columbian articles. I can't believe this Danzer guy basically printed whatever this team wanted him to write. First NORPAC, now this. Yet, it is always somebody's fault. Message to NORPAC....please don't even consider letting these guys back. Not likely you will. After all they have said about the league. I haven't seen Billings or Helena play, but I saw Seattle, Tri and Eugene and all 3 of those teams would kick the **** out of them anyway.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:06 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Agree with the above poster. Cheek has been feeding Danzer for three years now, so the result is a whitewashed article.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:30 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

check it out. more cancelled games on the wha site. this time a conflict with minor hockey.... right!
NOV 1

There will be no games played this weekend in Osoyoos due to a scheduling conflict with minor hockey at the rink.
from the wha web site

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:56 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Where do the players, parents, of all norpac teams from the DARK 06-07 SEASON get there refunds..??
Wh

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:03 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

paid $5500.00 up front, $500.00 to help suport advertising, arorx $500.00 more on sweat shirts, game bag, hats etc.. my kid skated aprox. 8 1/2 min. this season..
And they said no refund!
I worked 3 jobs during the summer to give my kid a jr hockey chance..
our family is very upset..
any suggestions? Besides throw-up.
we even bought non-refundable tickedt to fly to canada and watch 2 games in dec.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:06 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Have your kid call other teams. There is understanding people out there, and will help get your kid skating somewhere.
good luck
MR. B

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:09 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

It is really sad. People were warned. Warned about the Pioneers and warned about the WHA. It's unfortunate that people were only thinking of having their kid on a winning team. Again, the end goal was to win. Egos got in the way. Sad, sad, sad.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:14 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

What's with the video of the former Pioneers goalie? I don't think it would impress many coaches. Only goes to show how pathetic the Pioneers organization is. Obviously they didn't think too much of this goalie because if they did they would be helping him find another team like they have other players and/or scouts from other leagues would have his name and number and be calling him.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:15 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Cheek has been telling the Columbian how to report for a long time. Nothing new here. I think most people consider the source.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:19 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

Joe loftgren is a thief, add it up folks, here comes the lynchmob!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:03 PM, November 02, 2007) : 

what equipment what uniforms they used practice uniforms - joe has a new boat and a new girlfriend = player fee's actually danzer is doing on story on the boat and how he bought it and when also ex coach is ready to lay them out right or wrong he knows all about chicks and lofty

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:44 AM, November 03, 2007) : 

Making comments like this only hurts innocent people!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:16 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Why is nobody looking into the financial part of the organization. Weren't they registered as a non-profit, where is the yearly certified accounting of every penny that was brought in and every penny that was spent and spent for. Whatever problem the club has, they should be able to truthfully offer up an accounting of the books. Were any of the office staff on paid positions, digging into the books may offer some relief or explanation for the non-refunding of the player. My heart broke for the parent talking about the extra jobs, money spent all to give his son the chance to play, and the less than 9 minutes. That is just wrong.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:58 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Hi hockey fans,
I just learned about this hockey blog area, Wish i would of known of it last year. Lets other players and fans know of it. Its great information.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:10 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Wow after watching that video of the Pioneer Goalie, no fans in the stands. One of the most exciting parts of a game, and the stands are empty.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:06 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Why would it matter if they were for profit or non-profit? Shouldn't all organizations keep a record of income and expenses, be accountable?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:56 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

The parents should demand the books, something is fishy

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:08 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

While I am not that familiar with the Fort Vancouver saga, I have tried to keep up with the "Tricky Ricky" saga including the attempts to revive the old WHA in 2004, Hull and Smiths disappearing act from the WHA Junior League in Florida part way through the season, and his live comments on a Jun07 stock radio show about Dallas and Bay City, Mich hockey camps that were in fact total fabrications. When Fort Vancouver joined in May, Smith was preaching a 16 team league and a bunch of teams in the USA NW. No mention of Barrhead Alberta though, a team 1000 miles away from Vancouver, Washington.

Those running the pioneers may have been scum but RICKY SMITH is:

(Jon+Joe+Brian) times 10.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:08 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

I’ve followed the Pioneers for three years now. Just a hockey fan. And, I have no bone to chew personally. But after reading local newspaper accounts on Friday I‘m thinking, isn’t there any accountability on this issue. Sponsors out of luck, ice rink out of luck,….and worst of all players who put up $5000. It’s clear that the Pioneers and league headquarters are pointing the finger at each other. Does that get them both off the hook in the accountability department? What about the kids who put up the big dollars to play? There needs to be some justice.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:02 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Pioneers are A PROFIT CORPORATION

As for the empty stands you seem to view in the goalie video. It was after "midnight" and there were 400 fans that night on the record. Many left before the end - it was painful to watch a full squad against 8 players from Osoyoos.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:44 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Is it true Loftgren isnt returning calls? We warned you last season that he was a crook, he is probably covered his tracks really well. Look for some creative accounting!!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:10 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Oh yeah. And who was the blogger who said the Pios were killing teams in the WHA? Seems to me that the Pios had what? 20 players and the "smoked" a team that had 8 players. Oh yeah, that's a real killing.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:12 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Who ever thought they were a non-profit organization? No, they were in if for the money, plain and simple. The players, parents, sponsors, fans were pawns in their game. And it looks like Joe won.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:13 PM, November 03, 2007) : 

Anybody know how many of the former Pioneer players have found new homes? How many are still out looking?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:00 AM, November 04, 2007) : 

I think almost everyone found a home. Two players were 21 so they are no longer playing anywhere.

Galvin 3pts tonight and Laranaga went to Seattle.

The Sweedish goalie Tuurala went to Yellowstone 42 of 44 and a win tonight.

Petrino (Chip) has moved on.

Knowles 2pts tonight and Shaw 1 point tonight went to Tri-Cities.

Most of the rest were only 14 or 15 and are going to midget teams etc.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:15 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

Sounds like 6 out of what? 20 players who have found homes.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:50 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

Status of Ft Van players:

SANDERS & MAC BURNIE - aged out
GALVIN - Seattle Totems (NORPAC)
LARRANAGA - Seattle Totems (still on Billings Protected list, Totems trying to work it out)
C.PETRINO - Omaha (USHL)
FUNDAK - Dubuque (CSHL)
DANKENBRING - Eugene (NORPAC)
KNOWLES - Tri Cities (NORPAC)
SHAW - Tri Cities (NORPAC)
HEALY - (still undecided)
HESS - Alaska HS hockey (Anchorage)
TURRALA - Yellowstone (NORPAC)
VOGEL - West Coast (PNAHA - Youth)
CHEEKS - Kent or SnoKing (Youth)

Younger players still needing teams:

STANCHFIELD (goalie)
DOUBRAVA
WILLLIAMS
S. PETRINO

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:21 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

Were there only 18 players on the Pioneers? Isn't that a short bench for Juniors? Only 12 have spots at the moment and isn't it interesting that 5 are with Norpac teams? As I recall the Pioneer players were "too good" to play for Norpac teams.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:06 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

"paid $5500.00 up front, $500.00 to help suport advertising, arorx $500.00 more on sweat shirts, game bag, hats etc.. my kid skated aprox. 8 1/2 min. this season..
And they said no refund!
I worked 3 jobs during the summer to give my kid a jr hockey chance..
our family is very upset..
any suggestions? Besides throw-up.
we even bought non-refundable tickedt to fly to canada and watch 2 games in dec."

- next time do your homework...the bad word on this team/organization and league were ALL over the place...

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:18 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

Doubrava, Willians and S. Petrino really aren't Junior level playes. The Pioneers 'of old' would have not given them a look. Stanchfield was doing well at the Canadian HS he attended, but not sure of his Junior potential.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:55 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

Stanchfield was #3 goalie for Pioneers. He should have stayed and played in Canada in Notre Dame -- and even there he wasn't a top goalie. Obviously there is a reason he doesn't have a place to play - he can't make a local team.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:57 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

two posts up re: Doubrava, Williams, and younger Petrino. You're right. Pioneers of old would have not even noticed them.

Pioneers had 19 on their roster when they folded. Don't know who they missed in players placed.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:01 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

What I mean by accountabilty is can't the players sue to get their money back? I realize that the team doesn't have the money to give back. I guess...why bother if there is nothing to get.....it's just going to cost for a lawyer. This bothers me.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:19 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

From what ive been told, Loftgren alone handles the finances, he is nowhere to be found. He is in financial turmoil due to impending divorce. There is precedent with the guy from the Evergreens who is in Prison for ripping off parents in WA. Joe and he could be cellmates.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:46 PM, November 04, 2007) : 

alot to digest here. there might be 3-4 players that could crack a lineup for the Bulls, Icedogs or Bighorns in Norpac east from that Pioneers team. The roughies could use a few.

Why don't the parents of the kids get lawyers and sue the pants off Loftgren. I've actually seen the guy. They are huge pants.

This danzer fella from the paper should grab some balls and write about what this crew has been up to for the past 3 years. There is probobly way more things than we actually have heard about. I would guess if we knew everything, it would be far wrse.

These jokers can't even last in an outlaw league.

I love it when bad things happen to bad people. If cheek and loftgren were man of good character and principle, they would refund all the money. It took the old owners here in Butte 6 years to do it, but they did it. all the fans and sponsors of the Irish were paid back.

It is tough to watch games here when we knew that that team was cheating to win. Goodbye losers!!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:47 AM, November 05, 2007) : 

As a former Pio, I just want to say Joe was great to us. He would buy us beer and let us party on his boat, encourage us to streak and he was always funny. I thought he was rich though and dont understand why he isnt paying back our money, we cant even get a hold of him.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:31 AM, November 05, 2007) : 

Provided beer, and encouraged to streak ???????????????? That is scary and well scary. FREAK.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:20 PM, November 05, 2007) : 

He spent all your money on beer and his new boat. Are you suprised you can't get ahold of him?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:33 PM, November 05, 2007) : 

Gee, and I thought the fall of the Pios was because of the WHA league. As I recall the blame was all on the WHA. Why is Joe in hiding if the Pioneer organization was innocent of all wrongdoing? Something isn't right here!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:05 PM, November 05, 2007) : 

Maybe Joe is in Canada with Jon?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:39 PM, November 05, 2007) : 

Let's hope not. He needs to stay an answer to the players and their families. Has a nice car and now a nice boat. Somebody buy the man a "FOR SALE" sign and let's get some people paid back.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:56 PM, November 05, 2007) : 

But you don't get it. Joe has never done anything wrong! It's the WHA who dumped the Pioneers. The Pioneers didn't fold all on their own, it was the fault of the WHA. I'm sure he feels that he doesn't owe anybody anything. It's not his fault.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:29 AM, November 06, 2007) : 

Fantasy, just like beer and streaking. He owes alot. I hope he doesn't dissapear, better to keep tabs on him, so he doesn't slime his way into another place to destroy involving kids.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:58 PM, November 06, 2007) : 

I don't think you will ever get an answer from Joe so don't hold your breath. Or if you do hear from him he will just tell you to ask the WHA.
Does Cheek have any responsibility in this? Weren't there other owners? If so, what is their responsibility.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:49 PM, November 06, 2007) : 

Joe owned five sixths of the team, he handles the finances, Cheek tried to keep it going and even coached when McWilliams got stuck in BC, this is all Loftgren.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (11:19 PM, November 06, 2007) : 

If Joe owned 5/6 of the team, where is the other owner. I'm surprised that there was only one. Where is he/she? Is that Cheek? How could Cheek keep it going if there was no money?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:15 AM, November 07, 2007) : 

There were several owners the 1st year I think after it purchased from Portland. They were all gone last year, wonder why. I feel bad for the people that stayed.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:03 PM, November 07, 2007) : 

The people (players and parents) who stayed bought the party line and didn't heed warnings. The players were free agents, they had options. They made the decision to play for the Pioneers. I don't feel sorry for them.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:09 PM, November 07, 2007) : 

Hopefully in the future we will have Junior Hockey again in Vancouver, Washington.

As a life long resident and hockey fan,this great community deserved more then what we received from the Pioneers ownership this year. Potential can be measured in so many ways and from so many points of view.

Unfortunately for everyone involved with the Pioneers this season it was lost. I knew something was amiss when at the first game I noticed none of the sponsors were back from last year and the guys were wearing practice uniforms. I feel for the everyone, the players and parents who lost their money and opportunity, the few new sponsors who were sold down the Columbia River and for the fans of hockey in Vancouver. I'm sure that a new group will appear in this community in the next year or two and hopefully be free of the degrading reputation that this team has brought upon our community.

Anonymous For Now

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:41 PM, November 07, 2007) : 

It is sad that Mt. View Ice Arena used to be a premier rink with very healthy skating programs. Due to poor management on the part of the rink (youth house programs) and poor management on the part of the Mavericks (youth hockey rep. program) and Pioneers (Jr. B/A), everything folded. What was once a rink with wonderful opportunities for hockey players has been run into the ground. Hopefully someone who has integrity and a vision will be able to bring hockey back to Vancouver. Unless the church closes the only sheet of ice left.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:34 AM, November 08, 2007) : 

Loftgren led his Boston's Restraunt to financial failure and now has done the same thing to the Pioneers. Sponsors gone, the entire coaching staff, the trainer even leaves the team was there any signs here that things were bad in Dodge City. What I don't understand is why Cheek stayed around as it doesn't make any sense.

The players lose the team fees they paid the club. Do the creditors all get paid or does Loftgren bankrupt the team and keep the player fees to pay off his boat?

I guess the good news if any is Loftgren is out of the hockey business. He destroyed some good people and left a community that really supported their hockey team and that is really a downer.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:47 AM, November 08, 2007) : 

Cheek stayed around because he was an investor/decision maker and really this was all about his son 'making' a Junior hockey team. Funny how on the final weekend they were supposed to travel to Canada, his son was already in Kent playing for Kent Valley Selects U16s. Gives you a peek into the timetable of when this thing was unraveling (and the priorities of Cheek).

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (2:30 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

F**K ALL OF YOU!

Joe Loftgren

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:02 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

YOU ALREADY DID !

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:25 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

Interesting that Cheek had his son at Kent before the Pios folded. Guess he saw the handwriting on the wall. Did he let anyone else in on the secret? Another pathetic story about the Pioneers if you ask me.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:26 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

Well Joe, if all the negative comments about you bother you then you should come clean, cough up the money and pay people what they are owed. Explain to folks exactly why the Pios folded. Until your comment things on this blog have not needed to be censored. Shame on you.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (7:49 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

Parents are rooted deeply in all the hockey organizations in that area. Their kids and their friends are always treated differently, and have been for many years. Now with only 1 youth organization and 1 Jr. A/B? whatever, it will only become worse and more political than ever.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:47 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

Part of the problem was all the badmouthing that the organizations run out of Mt. View did toward the organizations across the river. Now with the Mt. View organizations gone things will be much, much better.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:10 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

Joke, in your dreams.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:11 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

what a really sad thing to say, with all those players displaced.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:19 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

I agree with a previous blogger. Hockey will be much better without the Mt. View organizations. Sad to say but they were both poorly run. Talk about politics! Hopefully sometime in the near future someone who is truly for the players will step forward and organize hockey in the Vancouver area.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (10:22 PM, November 08, 2007) : 

I thought all the displaced players from the Pioneers had found homes.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:46 AM, November 09, 2007) : 

All but two FTV players have found teams. They are two of the younger local players.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:47 AM, November 09, 2007) : 

All but two FTV players have found teams. They are two of the younger local players.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:45 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

What a joke. It's all Cheeks fault he bad mouthed everyone down there and now has to drive to Kent because Portland won't take his kid and No Jr team will either. Sounds likethe kid has no future.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (12:47 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

Cheeks owned part of the team and now won't step up and make it right what a stand up guy.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (4:44 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

don't put the blame on Cheeks. Its Loftgrens name on the bank account. He's the one who handled all money going in and going out. The right thing would be for him to communicate with those parents and provide an accounting of what money came in and how it was spent. The only thing for sure is that he has a new $70,000 boat. And parents are having to write another check(s) to new teams and that is all his fault.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:35 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

Did the girlfriend stay now that the money is all gone or did he run back home to the wife for his allowance? It must be a big boat in order to keep him a float.

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:33 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

I guess Cheeks was the 1/6 owner of the Pios. Then between Cheeks and Loftgren the parents of those players are owed an accounting of the money. I can't believe that the folding of the Pioneers is all being blamed on the WHA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:48 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

The GM/Board Member should have knowledge of team finances as well. Now if Joe hid expenditures from Cheek then that's another story. Given they are a 501c3 with a budget of 80K-100K, they should have to file a tax return. This should mean an accoutant somewhere in the mix, unless Joe took on that duty.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:54 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

I didn't know that the Pios were non-profit.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (6:56 PM, November 09, 2007) : 

With the new WHA saga (Ken Law) it just goes to show that the folding of the Pioneers is the fault of the WHA.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (3:06 PM, November 10, 2007) : 

NO BUS DOES NOT END A SEASON, PLEASE. IF THE PIONEERS HAD NO MONEY TO PAY BACK, WHAT WERE THEY GOING TO DO, ONLY WHAT 4 WEEKS OR SO INTO THE SEASON? THERE WAS NO WHERE ELSE THEY COULD PLAY RIGHT? I THINK THEY PLAYED THEIR TRUMP CARD AND GOT TRUMPED. THEIR OWN LETTER STATES THE DIDN'T GO BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT THE WHA TO GET THE PURSE FROM THE GAME. MONEY IS WHAT KEPT THE TEAM FROM GOING, CAUSE THEY HAD NONE TO SPEND, AND WANTED TO BE BIGGER THAN THE LEAGUE THEY WERE PLAYING IN. IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO HELP BUILD A BETTER PLAYER THEY ALSO HAVE TO HELP BUILD A BETTER LEAGUE. WHETHER THE LEAGUE IS IN TROUBLE OR NOT.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:11 AM, November 11, 2007) : 

The Pioneers were "proving a point" to the WHA and yes, they lost the bet. How they could spend all their money the first month of the season is beyond me. Joe, etc. were in it for themselves, not the players, not the league, not for hockey.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (8:43 PM, November 12, 2007) : 

wow this all sounds like Tucson about a year ago.
I TOLD YOU SO.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:24 PM, November 12, 2007) : 

The parents and players were gullible and bought the line that the Pioneers were above the level of Norpac. They were led astray by Loftgren and Cheek who were not thinking of the players. The information was out there, about Loftgren, MacWilliams and about the WHA. Why they turned a blind eye is beyond me.

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (1:10 PM, November 13, 2007) : 

Cheek should be paying people back he was 1/6 owner instead of speding money on his kid playing somewhere else. The kid should be banned until everyone is whole again. why has no one filied a law suit against him?

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (5:00 PM, November 13, 2007) : 

Cheeks stayed for his son. He had an agenda to keep his son at home close to his mother. At this point Cheeks knows he made a mistake to stay with a bad cast of characters as it contributed to the failure. Joe Loftgren is loser who drags good people with him and in this case Cheeks was sucked into the Pioneer web trying to keep his son home. Bad decision in many ways!

 

Anonymous Anonymous said ... (9:09 PM, November 13, 2007) : 

Cheek was not sucked into the Pioneer web. He had full disclosure to all the Pioneer dealing and to the WHA. The coach from last year, Leslie, pulled his son from the organization and has him playing for the Jaguars. He saw what was happening, how things were run, and got out. Cheek decided to stay. But it sounds like he found his son another team before the Pioneers folded. Insider information if you ask me.

 

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